Illustrations fer an early book made on a Mac 512k. summer of ’91
Well Double Yee-Haw everybody it rootin-tootin 
…pull out yer beret’s and bongos…I’m interrupting my long ass somewhat weepy tale about my poetry story(but featuring very little actual poetry)with some god blessed actual poetry…plus this will be shorter, which means faster to post…’cause truth be told Cat’s & Kittens I am one tired ol unit…I usually get up about five thirty, six am (no matter what, ever since I been a boy)and well…lol-ing here we are past midnight…but I really wanted to have a little fun with some of the crap I been digging out of my “box o’ writing” (a large plastic lidded bin stuffed full of stuff [some material now over thirty years old]including early art(eob?), poetry etc)…
Anyway before we start that goofiness…how about one of my top ten favorite poems from a great poet(no, not mine, not me, haven’t you been paying attention)
This is a lot of poets “favorite” poem. I don’t know if it’s my “favorite”. I do someday plan to put the first strophe on my body somewhere in tattoo form, maybe forearm with fancy script…anyway
Eating Poetry by Mark Strand
Ink runs from the corners of my mouth.
There is no happiness like mine.
I have been eating poetry.
The librarian does not believe what she sees.
Her eyes are sad
and she walks with her hands in her dress.
The poems are gone.
The light is dim.
The dogs are on the basement stairs and coming up.
Their eyeballs roll,
their blond legs burn like brush.
The poor librarian begins to stamp her feet and weep.
She does not understand.
When I get on my knees and lick her hand,
she screams.
I am a new man.
I snarl at her and bark.
I romp with joy in the bookish dark.
Oh…mmm was that delicious or what…grrruff…now compare that to the poem below…I mean keep in mind that this was…1991, I was thirty-one-ish homeless, or just nearly close to out of being homeless by this point, and one opinionated bastard, I mean I was really quite full of myself back then…I mean…yes of course I’ll let you stop laughing before I go on..(wait till ya read a couple of my “Psycho Boy” columns in Pt. 5)
I Chameleon
Lazy lounging lizard
Watch the world through roving eyes
As I sit upon the one great tree
Oh I mean it is to laugh…there were, are some bad poems in that box…but that’s the point isn’t it…writing is really about the process. It’s about writing, and re-writing and perfecting yer craft…speaking of that I’ll leave ya with a funny example of the ‘process’.
Here’s a little poem. I considered it an old poem when I posted it in Golden State Years (the name of a chapbook I have ready to be published hint hint anyone out there interested…anyone…anyone…[insert sound of crickets chirping here])…oh it is to laugh…jes gotta have fun with it…
Anyway I’ll leave you with this…I believe a great example of the editing and growth(I knew this poem had been part of a larger piece but had forgotten just how…differently the same[lol] they were…
First the version as it stands today
My Little Dog
When
Sitting alone not lonely
Does your brain become a little dog
Mine does
Chasing it’s tail
Round and round
Sometimes I talk out loud
I used to fly
In some odd past life
Maybe we all did
Okay and here’s the earlier untitled version, from the chapbook “I Chameleon”
so you’re driving down the road of dreams, you’ve got the brights on, but still ya can’t see everything. what’s that at the side of the road? you turn your head but it’s gone, might have been nothing.
tell me your dreams
and i’ll tell you your name
not the one you’ve given to flesh
but the one you use to keep yourself sane
only one pillar holds up your head. it takes more than that to hold up the sky. little man who wears sheets and eats bloody burgers wants to knock em all down, his tongue is his hammer, his God is white.
tell me your fears
and I’ll tell you your faith
not the one you profess you believe
but the one you use to justify hate
and watching GTV, the silver haired, silver tongued, fatherly figure said you’d better believe or God will shut the door on you. smiling he said you’ll be left out in the cold. i went to get my jacket on.
tell me your loves
and I’ll tell you your doubts
not the ones you try to build on
but the ones you use to keep others out
when sitting lone not lonely, does your brain become a little dog? mine does going round and round chasing its tail. sometimes i talk out loud. i used to fly in a distant past life, so i think did we all.
tell me your thoughts
and I’ll tell you your dreams
not the ones you use to dance
but the ones you use to make believe
i used to fly in a distant past life, so i think did we all.
Okay well now I know I’m just being unfair, the thing is probably quite large percentage of WP writers may fall into the arty weirdo I just barely can hold a real job category (as compared to the population at large say), but if 
you hold a good job, or have held any job for a long period of time (and here I mean a real job, not a job in a record store, tattoo parlor, software development firm) yer belief that you are an arty oddball is only in your head…and to join with our media driven modern culture promoting the arty oddball loser, the ghetto thug, the overindulged rock or sports celebrity as pinnacles of cultural achievement (so you seem cool to your sheep like friends who are also pretending to be cool) is only hurting the country not helping it…
Here’s one good way to know what kind’a person you are, help you define yerself(separate from your employment)…Do you like Lady Gaga, think she is all that as it were…think she is arty and edgy?…If so, listen up, you are a worker bee, you should take off the weird make-up, yer lame thrift store concocted moon outfit and get the f back to work…you are neither arty or edgy, what you are is easily led, you are the type of person who should be working mainly in the service industry like say selling cosmetics at JC Penny or behind the counter at a fast food joint…
Devoid & Most Likely Unemployed
Do you consider yerself kick ass cool, do you listen to a: Only Metal or b. Only Gangsta Rap…
If yer answer was a: Only Metal, and you think yer a bad ass, more than likely you don’t have a job,. If you do then you are most probably a white, factory automotive, manufacturing or other blue collar worker.
If you answered band you think yer a bad ass it’s even more likely that you don’t have a job, but that if you do you fall in to the same as above category except: either way you
Annoyed & Definitely Unemployed
are more than 90% likely to be black, (exception to this, thirty something white collar office workers who on Saturday night out with the bros, like to relive their suburban high school gangsta days).
None of you are truly bad asses, especially you office workers, so stop promoting and supporting gansta culture, cause though you can separate your thoughts and your behaviors, a lot of kids growing up can’t, they buy into, they believe this shit….some kids, when you tell them to tune in turn on and drop out (I know, I know, too old school) actually do…
That’s why there is a definite exception to this rule, some of the “bad asses” are actually, really, bad asses, they’re not gonna hold jobs, don’t wanna hold jobs, (better to die on yer feet, than live on yer knees, etc, etc…)and ya know, these true rebels living outside of society, but yet functioning within strict guidelines all their own, I understand them , better than I understand most of you…
You…in fact reading this blog are most likely a fan of Kanye West, Lil Wayne, Katie Perry, Madonna (still?)or Justin Bieber, maybe even Maroon Five (guilty pleasure right).
A fan of The Voice, The View, The Talk, The Walk, alright I made that last one up is the point is, you probably are white, female, work in an office, possibly in human resources, maybe in health care, or an Elementary school teacher, you also, most likely like to think you are still edgy…
Yer about as edgy as yer motto…(and ya know how much I love to mock this one Cat’s & Kittens)…Live, Laugh, Love, which along with yer edgy mission statement, Live like no one is watching…no wait it’s Laugh like there’s no tomorrow…no crap…Dance till it hurts…oh well ya know the one….
Listen and I hate to break it to you, but yer not even remotely close to the town where edgy once lived some years back now….
I know that I’ve gone way off the beaten track here, way deep into unexplored territory through this three part extravaganza…but why, what have I been trying to say….no I mean really…What the hell have I been trying to say?
Oh yea thanks, when I am talking about culture and responsibility, you have to remember that fer some of us, it is our responsibility to be the intellectuals, the artists, the weirdo deviants, I’m okay with all that, but we are supposed to be small sub cultures, not the culture at large..that’s my point, that’s my only point…I don’t want the rest of the country to behave like me…like with my own children I want society to be better than the worst among us.
Yet here we are every day every body tryin to out media-fy, hell out socialnetworka-fy each other in an never ending self pleasuring dysfunctional cycle of shocking over indulgence and staged guilt…
Misfit to Mister & Back Again…Those Who Can’t Do Teach Pt II
April 11, 2012
All right so here we are back again…and as good as any a place to start is when I left the land of Oz for the frozen north, October of 1994 I was determined to learn to be a good worker bee, I had two small kids (already had messed up and lost custody and relinquished visitation for my first son). I put
my worker cap on, belittled and beat myself up (like a drill instructor would have[only I was doing it too myself at age 34] and was much crueler given I knew all my own weakness and foibles).
I barely pulled it off at first, but with steady application and try and try again mentality (okay so no punching other employees at work…check) After a few years I was doing pretty good, I had trained myself to be, at least fer however many hours a day you were willing to pay me, a good responsible person. (remember I was nearing forty at this point)
Now this is back some years, Ex 1 was still in the picture, but though I’d learned to behave at work, in my private life I was still pretty much one of Peter Pan’s Lost Boys…Is it any wonder then at some point she left with the kids (temporarily) back to Mom, back to Oz…
Well okay that was a wake up call, I still had work to do. I pulled up my boots, pulled up ‘em up tight, then pulled up ‘em up even tighter cinched ‘em with drawstring and wrapped the whole thing in duct tape. I worked harder, worked better, lived better (almost all my bad behaviors had been conquered[almost Cat's n' Kittens but we're gettin to that*])…
I actually ended up in a professional job, a real job, had my own office with my name and title on my door (in order to accomplish this, to get this far, I had to, in essence, kill the other “me”, the weirdo artist, so that I could not only put away want and focus on need, but fit in with the “normies” [who incidentally almost all viewed themselves as weirdo artist types]) and continue to be employed. I was making real money, and working 50 hours or more a week…
I only pulled this high a level of employment though for a short time, and only because I had an excellent, understanding boss…I am a dysfunctional unit, but I have learned to explain that (hopefully in a way each new
Dizzying Heights of Success
employers understands). This boss worked very well with me and allowed me a wide latitude of odd behaviors* lol (singing out loud, foul language)
However like any unit worth his weight in dysfunctions, I eventually cracked*, the carefully constructed new unit I had become, though well polished in almost every visble aspect, still held the same original flaws.
Though I could see, know, and understand how to behave, I was not very good at actually doing. I was certainly never going to be able to reach and achieve the sort of level of normalcy you need to be successful in this land of winners…it was too late fer me(if I’d ever even stood a chance at all)…I’d started training myself far too late, things I was learning at thirty-five I should have been learning at thirteen…
In this last cracking, oh some five years ago now, I lost everything, for a second time..lol…second wife, second house…oh it is to laugh
But don’t get me wrong, this last time I stood at the edge of the cliff of responsibility and jumped off..After fourteen years or so of trying I realized either the above was true, a:I’d started too late, or b: in whatever way it was that I was dysFUNctional, it doomed or fated me to behaving irresponsibly (left turns)and doomed (or fated or whatever) me to be the unit I was and, either way, or both together didn’t matter, I had to accept it….
Now I don’t know any of you, my smart and oh so intelligent readers, personally, but I’ll bet a good chunk of you think “that’s me”
But and while I’m not judging you, and it very well may be true…
Well hey and hey-lo Cat’s, Kittens it’s me the ol Dysu with another fantastic edgy hot off the presses…Okay, well, the truth is Lil’ Mouse read the last post and spent a good deal of 
the time laughing at, how did she put it, “…your being responsible nonsense…”
But just because I can’t do, doesn’t mean I can’t teach…In fact just the opposite is a common cliche’…Those who can’t do, teach.
Like, I mean, I know I sound like such a hard ass, I sound, well, I know how it sounds when I say you should…okay well maybe I’ll stick to I statements
I was talking about behaviors that I should have learned but didn’t…you can read more of this concept here, and uh…here…but the deal is, that’s part of what I am talking about when I talk about being Dysfunctional……you have to remember that I was born, and raised back in a time when being a fuck up was not socially “cool”…I knew responsible from irresponsible, I was always compelled(?) to act irresponsibly…was it just that I was born this way (nature)….a
Anyway, though it was not cool to be lazy good fer nothin’ dreamer when I was first born it was about to become that way, unfortunately fer me ( I believe)…Okay I have to make sure I say this next part right because it can be confusing even to me if I’m not careful…
I'll give ya somethin to cry about!!
See, (I believe now) my parents (in my case my good parent was) were right…and that the adult Dysu would have a lot less trouble if I had, as a young Dysu, learned to toe the line (play the game)…
Instead culture began to embrace the rebellious misfit.
My right to have whatever I want!! Beeyatch!
Not only embrace the irresponsible “fool”, as it were, but to hold them up as a model of right behavior…(after all in the Age of Aquarius we were all gonna live and sing hand in hand in a field of daises while candy colored rainbows provided for all our hazy fuzzy dreams where I could be anything, do anything, believe anything I wanted, and it would come true)…well hell that was perfect fer me, it reinforced the idea already chemically generating within my own brain…
See (I believe now) that with steady and appropriate pressure, applied early enough, I could have learned to behave more responsibly (or possibly just harness much of my weirdness better?). Instead I only had inconsistent and odd pressures and a society plunging headlong into a self cultural shift where the irresponsible became every child’s idol…(which through the hilarious process of “nurture” of course exacerbated the 
problem)…that is my genetic and cultural heritage…I was born to be a Dysfunctional Unit, society made it okay…
See I have two points (well, yea, lol, but lets not split proverbials) 1. The largest section of any given population is not going to be the intellectuals, or artists, or gifted, or anti-thinkers, it is going to be average people…”working” people 2. When your largest section of the population, who use to be the “working” section, suddenly and mistakenly believe they are arty edgy counter culture rock’ n rollers with one foot in the grave “anti the-man” rebels…well yer population is in trouble.
And that’s where the real joke of my Dysfunction, a part of what spawned the name, the idea of this blog, is that I began to see how my Dysfunction had become the countries dysfunction in many ways, and what that might mean fer us…so I became dysfunctional over my own dysfunction, double times over and inside out…
And the little dog twirls round and round
I’ll Try Being Nicer….
March 31, 2012
…
…
…
…
Do ya know what that is?
It’s the sound of the crickets chirping after I asked any…any body to defend Obamacare…How about one of your friends? C’mon someone out there in wordpress land must know some one who knows someone who at least supports the idea of this idea?
I mean, okay, so I got more likes for my last post than any other, but after visiting some of these sites I am often stunned and wonder what was it about what I wrote that these individuals “liked”. Reading what they and their “followers” are saying I just can’t understand why they aren’t searching for the “hate” button…or
I have possibly a new theory, perhaps if you are following some fifty plus blogs it becomes quite a chore to actually read every post ( I know, I am following (seriously) about ten or so and am always a page (or more lol)behind in my emails, and it does become tempting somedays to just click “like” without actually reading…but ya know what? I like reading these blogs, (and commenting, hopefully not to the host’s annoyance[aww jesus here's that dysu again lol])and only one of them is written by another cantankerous old curmudgeon bitchin’ ’bout how we’ve lost our way as a country. And though we are obviously very different we share this one thing in common…
Here is an example of fun facts that John has dug up…
-
City officials in San Francisco are seeking to make ex-convicts a “protected class,” joining blacks, Hispanics, homosexuals, the disabled and transgendered, and pregnant women. Ex-cons already have the special status when applying for city government jobs, but a council of top city officials wants to extend the protection to make it illegal for landlords and private employers to ask about a person’s criminal record.
I mean…umm…lololol…jumped up Jesus on a pogo stick…I mean…really? Really?
-
The state of Nevada last year denied a request for a vanity license plate that said “GOPALIN” because, in the view of the Department of Motor Vehicles, such a plate was “vulgar or obscene or expressing superiority of political affiliation.” That policy didn’t stop the agency from issuing personalized plates that said “AL GORE,” “GO OBAMA,” “GOGREEN,” “DMOCRAT,” and “KERRY.”
Another fine example of free speech and tolerance in action
-
The Omaha, Neb., public school district spent $130,000 in federal stimulus money to buy manuals to instruct teachers and school administrators on how to be culturally sensitive. The book, The Cultural Proficiency Journey: Moving Beyond Ethical Barriers Toward Profound School Change, says that teachers need to work for social justice in order to overcome a white-privileged society. The book says racism, sexism, homophobia and ableism are forces of oppression in schools, and that institutions in America “channel wealth and power to white people.”
Doin my homework!
This is the killer one…this has been the silent killer of America, the NEA, I know, I know sounds paranoid…okay they have been one of New America’s best propagandists…still you think that’s over the top? Consider that not only have public schools, since the late sixties (remember blue eyed/brown eyed experiment) have been teaching (white) America(boys) how evil it(they) has been(are), it has also managed to figure out how to instill a sense of self esteem and entitlement to a generation of kids who are completely incapable of the type of accomplishment such self esteem would normally spring from…
Wait what you don’t understand the last half of that sentence, okay go back and read it again I will wait…
Thanks but no Spanks
March 15, 2012
Okay ac ya f-tard I am going to try to stay nice…but I just have to come back to you once more…so bear with me folks but…I think it’s important to what I am trying to accomplish overall with my blog 
and that is that we cannot learn to discuss and solve our issues as a country with f-tards like you refusing to use yer critical thinking…
“OK first let me clarify my use of the word ‘violence’ in the context of parenting.
I am referring to the parent using physical force (or the threat of it) in place of reasoning and peaceful negotiation with the child. That physical force may include physical violence as a punishment (or the threat of violence to act as a deterrent). It could also refer to violence/ physical force used by the parent to impose his/ her will upon the child forcefully in the moment. Of course there is also the psychological component associated with these physical acts or threats (fear, pain, terror, abandonment, humiliation, anxiety, stress, confusion etc).
Now hopefully I finally understand yer argument, you believe any and I will repeat any type of discipline, negative; and only reasoning and peaceful negotiations with children to be appropriate. That’s all I was looking for, I mean, again I will say that yer statement is hilariously ridiculous…and also that you are right it is impossible to debate your argument…
As far as I can tell you support the use of this kind of violence on children and have used these kinds of parenting techniques yourself on occasion. In other words you support these parenting techniques and consider them preferable on occasion.”
Once again you fail to actually read, or choose to overlook, what I have actually said. I have said on more than one occasion during our dialogue that I believed as you did, and raised my children using these techniques reason and peaceful negotiations…I was pretty clear on that, your lack of attention to this detail is just one of the reasons I am posting yer response again. I have, not just in these posts, but in the posts that I suggested you read (to get some background) have repeated on numerous occasions that it is the failure of not only these child raising techniques, but the overall dismal failure of much of my generation’s ‘nu-philosophies’ (we were actually suppose to improve society) that is a big part of the impetus for writing this blog (dysu) in particular.
What I realized upon my observing my own children struggle as they entered the adult world is that I failed them by not imparting certain key lessons of life, and I think they are the worse off for it. In hindsight, (what I have tried to explain to you) is that despite all I believed going into it, now having raised children and seeing the end result of “reason only” child rearing…I am ready to eat some crow and give a slight nod of acknowledgement to the thousands of generations (including even my own dysfunctional parents) who understood some discipline was necessary (again how much and of what type, when, where, that is debatable)…
I myself have never yet claimed to know anything specifically, I mean other to say I don’t know all I thought I knew, get it? Oh and that your logic sucks.
I'll try being nicer when you try being smarter
Speaking of debate, what you have also failed to realize is that I am not debating you (yet I mean how can I when you are right) on the topic of child rearing. I am only debating you on your use of faulty logic to prove your assertions. Your very premise, that all “discipline is is violence” is based on the theory that all discipline is applied inconsistently and with malice and this “fact” is incorrect, so it is impossible to debate.
Secondarily, is your stance on reasoning, like much of your theoretical argument, it lies at the heart of the b.s. that all children are born with the equal capacity for intellectual thought and reason (another “pop” psychology” theory”). A nice fairy tale but unsupported by actual fact.
Just so I make it clear abandonedculture, you can send me all the links and studies you want showing how beatings hurt kids (not my argument), you can send me all the studies you want supporting your side of the “reasoning vs. discipline” debate (I can do likewise but that’s not [though you have failed to grasp it yet] the topic here). But unless (that is if you are actually interested in an honest and open discussion) you can understand my two main points; 1. You have to use concise points addressing the topic at hand (the topic in this instance, the original article you had linked to was about clarifying laws regarding discipline, not beating, yet your original argument consistently and only resorted to the most graphic uses of over or excessive discipline [not allowing for the countless and well documented studies that suggest otherwise; that limited, proactive discipline done without malice or aggression is not only healthy but needed for a child]) 2. You need to understand your debate opponent (do your homework, read his position carefully, try not to make assumptions, if you do ask for clarification in case you are wrong).
Finally that leads me to my last point. I am still assuming you are a twenty something (grad student?) with no kids, I might be wrong, tried to find out really did. And if I assumed you believed 9/11 conspiracy (which you and every one else reading knows what I mean no matter how you try to obfuscate with some light and off target mockery) it is only because you posted and positively commented on a video supporting such views. I assume these things because of what you yourself have said, not only here, but in other posts. I know you think your opinions are really wise, you can tell by this statement “It is an uncomfortable question, which I acknowledged when I asked it.” lol it is to laugh…
Please don’t respond, I get yer message, as goofy and unrealistic as it is, any discipline is bad discipline, you go and raise yer kids with that theory, hovering around your infant and toddler constantly, getting in endless theoretical loop arguments with a two year old extolling the virtue of carrots over potato chips, pointless debates with a thirteen year old over the importance of learning to spell when the computer just does it for them, only to lose the debate in the end and have a child who can’t spell anything past yer most basic words, that’s what I did, that’s what we as a country have been doing for the last thirty years or so, and it’s going great.
If I had my chance to do it over again I would say what my parents said “Do it because I told ya to.” That’s a pretty good lesson for life lol. I know you don’t agree…I don’t give an f….let me know what you think after you have raised some kids
And again ac, just so we’re clear, I am not debating you on yer topic, ( I can’t possibly take anything you say seriously due to the lack of intellectual merit) I was just trying to point out the flaws in yer debate style, so if you feel you must respond to this don’t if all you have to say is that ” Mmm, beating children is bad, Mkay”, cause we both agree on that .
Come back when yer older
Spanks for the Comment Pt. 2 “The Spanks Continue”
March 12, 2012
Hello all again it’s me the ol’ Dysu and if you’ll forgive a little personal indulgence I just wanna finish up some business real quick…
Well, hopefully within this last post because I got plenty of other fish in the bucket, as it were…
Ac, ac, ac, again I am not sure where to begin. I went and looked and tried to find more info. I checked yer info page, read a number of your other posts trying to make sure there wasn’t somehow more to your argument, such as you were raised in an abusive household, grew up poor and in a rough way anything re: your age, schooling, personal experiences. I did read that you have traveled around this “awesome ball”. That implies you are a world traveler (whether that is true or not is unclear at this point) but what that specifically means regarding helping me define who you are I don’t know…
But from your posts, and your reply I am going to assume a couple things, forgive me in advance if they are wrong, but I did attempt to find the information out.
Unlike yourself, ac who was given the opportunity to learn something about the person before they assumed anything, but did not take the opportunity, yet cast their assumptions anyway…(But have you ever wondered if the very fact that you consider violence acceptable, and even preferable, might be a sign of the damage which you suffered as a result of your own childhood?) Oh it is to laugh. I’m pretty sure I’ve spelled out quite clearly the damages I suffered as a child and the resulting effect it’s had on my life but….plus ya wanna keep your arguments to things I have actually said.
Here’s a little bit about me, so that ya know before you speak…
I was raised in an abusive household, on a physical par a little above average for kids of my generation, but physical beatings are not the only kind of abuse children can suffer. I left home for the first time when I was thirteen and ran the streets pretty much on and off again till I was nearly twenty eight. So I understand abuse and the affects it can have on both children and the adult victims of said abuse.
Later in life I studied psychology, as many abuse victims do, and came very close (practicum classes) to becoming a licensed therapist on his way to bigger and better things (until I realized I like to talk more than listen). So indeed I understand in great detail, not just from a practical experience pov, but the theoretical applications as well…
I have worked in the social service field* we’ll get to that below
I have helped raise four children, (even was househusband for awhile)and have tried (lol) more than one parenting style. Determined of course, not to repeat my own childhood, (and from a psych pov yes over compensating) I may have been to lax on disciplining my own children (who are for the most part God Bless ‘em pretty good human beings).
But again, then we are back to my original point and the point I feel you still have not addressed. You seem to want to claim that discipline is important, but you also seem to be suggesting that any “physical” discipline is akin to “beatings” and violence against children. You do this repeatedly, first in your original post, and now in your reply, the words violence and “beating” or “beaten” appear numerous times
Again I will repeat my earlier assertion that if what your saying is that adults should not “beat” their children, I think everyone reading this post is in agreement with you…calling your average swats on the butt to teach your persistent two year old that there are consequences for going in the street “beatings”, that is what is debatable.
And this is where your logic is faulty, because one is true, does not make the other true. Because I swat my sixteen months old hand when she reaches for the stove does not mean I believe in beating my child (not something I ever did, but see the reasoning behind such things now, as my children enter adult lives lol)
Secondarily but equally as valid, is your logic issue regarding the outcome of said beatings. You seem to have a basic grasp of some rudimentary psychology, but it is, again, put to use in your argument in a way that is not only counter productive to your overall agenda, (having your readers agree with your assertion that hitting a child in any way shape or form is abuse) but unsupportable by actual facts.
You assert only the negative outcomes of such abuse on the adult victims. You state or imply, again both in your original post and your reply here to me, on numerous occasion about the long term effects of “violence” against children. But, even if I accept your original assertion that any form of physical discipline is akin to “violence”, than many of those who have suffered such “beatings” have gone on to do incredible things as adults. In fact you could almost say all of history (up until the modern “any physical discipline is abuse” years) has been founded on adults (including many great US Presidents)who have suffered such outrageous violence such as a “switching”.
But lets look at your argument one step further, even if a child suffers terrible abuse at the hands of a parent (or any adult), there is no guaranteed outcome…just look at Oprah Winfrey….I could list numerous examples. I’m not saying abuse is good. Again what I’m saying is your logic is flawed, that’s all, because one thing is true, does not make the other true.
What I was trying to say, what I am still trying to say is make sure you have sound arguments and are definitive in your assertions.
After all this I am quite clear that you believe beating and violence against children is wrong, but I am still unclear whether you actually meananyphysical discipline is excessive, or ??
I mean I enjoy a good debate, it is one of the reasons I have chose to use this as a post instead of simply replying, but I like my opponents to come well armed as it were lol.
And here’s where I can help you. Where as I don’t believe in beating children. I do believe, have come to believe, and have seen evidence now on numerous occasion where some children deserve a good beating (*). Now that is obviously a topic you and I could debate, you bring yer facts to the table, I’ll bring mine…
If, again I will repeat myself to make sure my statement is clear, you just wanna say adults shouldn’t use capricious and unnecessary violence against children, I and every(sane)one else are on board.
But if you want to make the claim that all physical disciple is abuse, and that all abuse of children leads to violent adults (or even, less reasonable adults) the facts (not my facts but the facts) do not support your arguments and I will gladly debate them.
Lastly, like many young people, (one of the assumptions I am making that may be wrong[but I will be surprised if i am]) you assert on numerous occasions that it is this violence against children which teaches them to be violent, (not your fault, you haven’t been educated properly). That is why I called your theories ‘pop” psychology because it begins, is founded on the flawed premise that humans have to be taught to be violent, the facts do not support this theory and I am always surprised it still gets props in this day and age.
If you take two infants who have been raised by loving parents and place them in a room with one teddy bear(limited resources), a vicious fight is going to break out. So the express opposite is true, we have to teach babies not to resort to violence. And before you say it, the use of violence in this issue, from my perspective would be a capricious use of violence so…no, no rational thinking parents suggests using violence to teach nonviolence (though we (humans) use to (back in the days of yore) and it most cases that worked pretty good also, lol.
So lets review…
Are these things inherently intertwined or artificially associated
1. You assert physical disciple=violence\beatings.
2. You assert physical disciple=negative outcome.
3. You assert physical disciple=violent adults=recycled discipline= recycled violence
They are all a truth, but not necessarily the truth…get it.
So this is all I’m sayin, make sure yer arguments are cohesive, structured around sound logic and, hyperbole aside, factually founded, that’s all.
Lastly, lastly, when you believe corporations are out to get ya, the greedy rich are ruining the country, that alternative energies are plausible today, that 9-11 might be a conspiracy, and that babies are born as some perfect vessel (as compared to a living genetic being with it’s own blueprint and instincts for survival) of humanistic ideals well then ya’ seem kind’a like a hippie (a word coined by the American Beats meaning a little but hip). This is again my second assumption which I indeed am making in this post, only based on what I have read of your work, so forgive me again…
But you probably aren’t…you were just taught by one. Anyway, I’m sure we pretty much can agree to disagree on most issues, but feel free to stop by anytime, perhaps we can discuss your limited, immature and somewhat ignorant views on slavery and racism…Oh it is to laugh.
I salute you sir!
Spanks for the Comment
March 11, 2012
Okay so to start with hilarious, your alternative, forward thinking views are about as cutting edge today as the hippie movement, oh it is to laugh…Men(white)=violence, racism, all others blameless and victims 
only…now thats some kind’a radically new philosophy you’ve come up with…
Oh wait what, okay so ya don’t know but I have been honored to have a guy comment one one of my poems in GS Years
I was very excited, I’d never had a negative comment, I mean I always thought fer sure it would come on this site first, but still it was great. I told Lil Mouse first thing. She wasn’t as impressed as I was. Her only comment was, ‘Now play nice’.
Well anyway of course, like with everyone who visits, I went to visit his site…..and that’s about where you entered. But maybe I should link him up so you can go read it fer yerself before we go any farther.
As you can imagine I had just a little to say to abandonedculture. Here is how my comment started…
‘ac-Your post is very well written and funny but your opinions lack solid intellectual merit and a cohesive interactivity as well as…so many things don’t know where to begin.’
As usual however it wasn’t the beginning I had trouble with, it was the ending, or I guess specifically simply ending. What follows is the rest…
“This next one is going to be hard …..try and imagine a world where children are afforded the same basic rights as adults,” this is just one of your hilarious statements. You think you are being edgy by suggesting this? This has
Natural selection, survival is instinctual. We must be taught to get along
been the mantra of American child rearing pop psychology since I was growing up (and that’s a long time ago now)…Do you think talking out against people using physical discipline against their children is somehow being “not p.c.”?
Let me use that same sentence still “This next one is going to be hard …..try and imagine a world where children are afforded the same basic rights as adults,” What are you trying
to say? Have you yourself actually tried to imagine this?? I am assuming (and we know what they say about that word) that you do not actually have children yourself, and forgive me if I am wrong, but let me know what you think after you do.
You seem to be confusing discipline with just plain ol violence…yes yes I know what about reason, what about reasoning with the two year old? You can discuss the many and varied reasons why he should not do…fill in the blank…and if he continues…well time out of course…
We have been doing this since the 80′s, or earlier in some cases; in bigger, more hip cities. So let me pose this question to you…Are young men less violent and out of control than they were say 50 or 60 years ago (during the hey day of white male cultural domination) or more out of control and violent…Don’t bother it’s a rhetorical question
Let’s move on to another piece of your so called “politically incorrect” diatribe “Now imagine a world where ‘black’ slaves were not given the same rights as ‘white’ people. A world where you can buy and own ‘black’ people and treat them as slaves. A world where a husband can beat his wife and that is considered pretty normal and acceptable too. And a world where hitting your kids is so commonplace it is considered a fundamental part of raising children.” Two specific things 1. these issues have only a tentative link from a logic argument standpoint and so are tenuously tethered at best 2.You have described, in your statement, cultural norms in much of the world in the present day, except for in white American, or western European influenced cultures, the very culture you want to condemn. If you are saying we are bad because this is the way we acted well, okay…But first it’s neither, in this day and age, radically out of step with the main stream to suggest we not beat children (let alone keep slaves), nor is it the point of the gentleman whose position you have taken issue with. The MP is not advocating “violence” against children, but discipline, discipline specific to their cultural parenting style(you’re not suggesting his [mostly Africans] constituents cultural form of parenting is inferior to our[we'll call it neo-western style] are you?) I mean that might be something I might say but you seem more culturally sensitive than that.
Reasoning with children, once they gain the ability to reason, is preferable to physical discipline. And in most cases, with most children (more often with girls than boys[more often but not always]) reason, discussion even 
limited sanctions are enough. But in some cases (the opposite of above more often boys than girls) the eventuality of physical corporal punishment must be applied and better for society if it is sooner than later. As a parent it is up to me to decide how, for what measures, and what judicious purposes. Are there bad parents? Yes of course, there have been, are now and will continue to be parents who capriciously beat their children, or who misuse the term discipline, but they can do that without using any physical violence sometime with much more devastating effects.
Which again brings up the question who is this post addressed to, people like me?(though I used to believe as you do when I was logically immature). If that is the case then you are saying that spanking your child, or swatting their hand is violence against children. You are following a long treasured yet now solidly proven misguided theory of “the child knows best”. It’s pop psychology theoretical dogma unsupported by reality. “You can’t hit virtue, reason or good sense into a child any more than you can hit algebra or geography into that child.” Your statement is unsupported by fact, for thousands of years this is the way the human race functioned, we did indeed, and so much more so than now, beat values, morals and even algebra into some children.
I am not making a value statement, just stating fact.
Let me end with this. When I was a boy growing up (a time of strict discipline backed by threat of violence) If a swear word left my mouth when I was, say ten, any adult within earshot could have taken by the ear and dragged me back home to dear ol ma & pa, who would not only spank me for the said offense, but for the embarrassment in the community. Fast forward to today, ten year old kids normally spout whatever language they care to, any adult who challenges is mocked or worse….
Too late
Again this is not my opinion, this is just what is.
My opinion on it is that, it is, unfortunately, a lack of discipline, (in some cases judiciously physically applied, early enough) along with a youth first culture (children’s rights?)that is one of the foundations for the problems western societies are in today….
Now ac-before you comment, reply and I sincerely hope you do, it will help you develop the foundations of your arguments if you read some of my previous work to get a flavor for who I am (as I did with you before writing this reply turned post). I will leave suggestions in your reply box as well as a link to this post.
Thanks again ac-I do indeed hope ya stop by, and that you’ve enjoyed this post you inspired, please feel free to comment, that goes for any visitors supportive or otherwise, God Bless ya, seeking the truth is as honest a past time as claiming to have found it.
I don’t claim anything other than being dysfunctional. I jes my little dog speak, it’s up to you the reader to decide whats true
